I spend too much time on FB Marketplace

"Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom" (will-alib) 10/30/2018 at 16:16 • Filed to: None

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2003 SL500. 68,000 miles for $6000. I kinda like the R230 but what’s the first thing to go clunk on this car gonna be? NADA clean retail is $14k. Gotta be a reason...

Dasupersprint - base trim is enough > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/30/2018 at 16:24

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Well the suspension is already broken, so there’s that!

Party-vi > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/30/2018 at 16:24

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Dem wheels don’t look right

fintail > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/30/2018 at 16:25

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Suspension and top mechanism, I predict.

First year MB of a notoriously complex car and er a, have fun!

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > fintail 10/30/2018 at 16:27

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These were the dark ages of MB reliability, right?

WilliamsSW > fintail 10/30/2018 at 16:28

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Suspension already went, I think...

WilliamsSW > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 10/30/2018 at 16:28

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Yes.  

fintail > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 10/30/2018 at 16:29

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2003 is a good year for the nadir, yes. First year W211 and R230, earlier W203 is always fun, and facelift W220 less troublesome than the first, but still can be iffy. W163 ML was still around along with R170 SLK - good times all around.

RallyWrench > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/30/2018 at 16:30

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If it’s an ABC car, be prepared to stroke a $10,000 check to fix all the suspension hydraulics. Good engine wrapped in a terrible car, they’re pieces of shit. 

fintail > WilliamsSW 10/30/2018 at 16:30

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A safe bet might then just be “everything”.

WilliamsSW > fintail 10/30/2018 at 16:35

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Someone around the corner from me has a rusty W210 in their driveway with a For Sale sign on it - I just shiver a bit when I walk by...

fintail > WilliamsSW 10/30/2018 at 16:36

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Scrap/parts value might be a couple hundred.

I had a W210 E55 that was pretty solid - a few quirks, but a decent car all around. I wouldn’t want one in a rust area though.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/30/2018 at 16:42

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Front suspension collapsed?

WilliamsSW > fintail 10/30/2018 at 16:44

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Approximately 100% of the W210's around Chicago are rusty.

And, I know they’re newer, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen rust on a W211, unless it was from an obvious accident repair.

fintail > WilliamsSW 10/30/2018 at 16:53

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Man I’m glad I am on the west coast.  I’ve only seen rusty 210s and 202s (another notorious model) in photos.  I saw a really rusty W126 once, but it originated in eastern Canada.  Older cars, like 123s and prior, seem to be able to rust anywhere, but that might be age as much as anything.

WilliamsSW > fintail 10/30/2018 at 16:57

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The 202's might actually be worse than the 210's.

The W140 and 220 aren’t that great, either. 

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > RallyWrench 10/30/2018 at 17:01

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ABC car? vas is das?

RallyWrench > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/30/2018 at 18:14

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Active Body Control, a fully hydraulic adaptive suspension system. It does not age well. 

fintail > WilliamsSW 10/30/2018 at 18:21

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Funny, I have never seen a rusty 140 or 220 either.  I’ve seen pics of some frightening underside rust on 202s, mainly just sheetmetal bubbling on 210s.

WilliamsSW > fintail 10/30/2018 at 18:25

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The 220's aren’t nearly as bad as the others. The 140 is probably marginally better than the 210.

The 202's are quickly vanishing from the roads around here - probably for the reason you describe.

The 163 is the all around champ though - not as bad for rust as the 202's, but surpasses them easily in terms of overall (un)reliability.

SpeedPunk122 > RallyWrench 10/30/2018 at 18:28

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This is precisely the answer! Run...

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > RallyWrench 10/30/2018 at 18:46

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Absolutely this. 1 button and 8 letters, ‘ ABC sport'. I had one once upon a time. This is the reason that I now don't.

fintail > WilliamsSW 10/30/2018 at 21:11

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I was thinking terminal technical maladies would befall 220s before rust would get them. It seems I see a much higher proportion of AMG to normal models now than in the past - either the AMGs were sturdier, or people are more willing to dump money into them. 140s will eventually be kind of a modern classic like a 126, 220s, not so much.

202s are still not too unusual here, I probably see one a day. But this is a gentle climate, I might see a 123 or 126 on the road every other day or so, and I have a short commute.

163s seem as rare as cars 20 years older, and most I notice seem to be V8 or AMG models. Not the finest hour. I think 2000-2005 era MBs will eventually be quite rare.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > RallyWrench 10/30/2018 at 21:14

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Right. I’ve heard a few horror stories..

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/31/2018 at 03:13

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https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mercedes-abc-rodeo-or-dem-hydros-q-a-1746365760

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 10/31/2018 at 10:04

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Thanks. Holy ratballs, what a shitshow. I assume the ABC system is so integrated that it would be impossible to convert to coils & shocks?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/31/2018 at 10:15

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Not exactly. But the ABC pump and PS pump are a tandem unit, so you can’t really get rid of anything other than the struts. So what’s the point? Unless... You want to get a normal PS pump and change most of the lines for that system. But if you have a FEW, then you would need to track down a pump and lines for an SL65 black series because it’s the only V12 that didn’t have ABC. Custom lines might even be required. With that much work involved, I’m not sure it’s worth converting. Not to mention the need to install sway bars.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 10/31/2018 at 14:03

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Did the CL class cars have ABC also? Here’s a 2004 from FB Marketplace for short money (137k mi $9k). But, it’s the TT V12 which has its own red flags, right?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/31/2018 at 15:26

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Yup. Some don’t have it, but the V12's definitely do. If you really want a Benz V12, either get the turbo one or the M120 (129 and 140 chassis). But no matter what, it’s going to be high maintenance and expensive to own.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 10/31/2018 at 15:44

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What is it about the 12 that makes it pricey to run? Do they just not hold up as well as the V8?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/31/2018 at 16:04

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There are 24 spark plugs. There are 2 ignition coils, each running one bank. The plugs aren’t cheap, and if you remove the ignition coils incorrectly they can be damaged. They cost a grand each. Sometimes they just fail.

Sometimes the seals for the coolant lines at the turbos will leak. That requires engine removal.

Engine mounts might require engine removal depending on the car, year, configuration.

There are two cooling systems.

The radiator on an ABC 220 S600 is one of the worst radiator replacements I’ve ever done.

ABC. I can’t stress this enough. Most non-V12's don't have this.

The engine itself is usually fine. But it’s big, makes a ton of heat, and doesn’t leave much room to work on stuff or for airflow. So lots of things require way more work than normal cars, and heat makes things fail sooner.

That stuff, on top of normal 215/220/230 problems is a lot to handle. And there are a lot of other problems on those chassis. These are sweet rides, but you need to be aware of what they need if you want to own one. Seriously, if you can't afford a brand new civic and be ready to drop 3 grand at a moment's notice, you shouldn't own one of these.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 10/31/2018 at 16:15

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Got it. Stick with six or eight cylinder Benzes w/o ABC when buying used. Thx.